"Eric Von Baranov" <eric@k...>
wrote:
""However, by our actions in the Middle East we are creating a common enemy.""
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Eric, I see that idea, which you share with J Kerry and many, many others, as the weak point in the whole anti-war ethos.
We are not creating a common enemy. The enemy has existed since Mohammed's time, since the Crusades, since British imperialism in the Middle East, since Chevron paid gold coins to King Saud in the 1930's for concessions, since Israel was formed, since television of US programs and Hollywood movies in the Middle East, etc.
The enemy has been attacking the West since they learned their craft, or merely improved on it, from the Nazis and Soviets from World War I to recently (and perhaps still). The original "Assassins" were from Iran and operated in Iran, Jordan, Israel, and Lebanon in the Middle Ages, much like Hezb'llah. This is not new, Eric. They didn't start hating us in 2003. We were just too busy or too dumb before to notice.
What we are doing is finally responding to this age-old enemy after they knocked down some symbolically important buildings in a symbolically important part of a symbolically important city in a symbolically important nation. Before they were merely gnats on a camel's nose. Before they were a nuisance or another cost of doing business, like taxes or strikes, or floods. Buy insurance, get on with it.
This gnat-like action was going on since the late 1950's out of Syria and Egypt. Read the history of Nazi and Soviet intelligence operations in both countries and later local subsidiaries. Four decades ago when I was in Iran I heard people saying the exact same things zarkawi and bin laden are saying now. Old news. People here didn't want to hear about it then and still don't. We'd rather hire a social worker to sort it all out and get rid of any leaders of our own who lead. Too scary to deal with. Ignore it and it will go away.
wrote:
""However, by our actions in the Middle East we are creating a common enemy.""
__________________________________________________________________
Eric, I see that idea, which you share with J Kerry and many, many others, as the weak point in the whole anti-war ethos.
We are not creating a common enemy. The enemy has existed since Mohammed's time, since the Crusades, since British imperialism in the Middle East, since Chevron paid gold coins to King Saud in the 1930's for concessions, since Israel was formed, since television of US programs and Hollywood movies in the Middle East, etc.
The enemy has been attacking the West since they learned their craft, or merely improved on it, from the Nazis and Soviets from World War I to recently (and perhaps still). The original "Assassins" were from Iran and operated in Iran, Jordan, Israel, and Lebanon in the Middle Ages, much like Hezb'llah. This is not new, Eric. They didn't start hating us in 2003. We were just too busy or too dumb before to notice.
What we are doing is finally responding to this age-old enemy after they knocked down some symbolically important buildings in a symbolically important part of a symbolically important city in a symbolically important nation. Before they were merely gnats on a camel's nose. Before they were a nuisance or another cost of doing business, like taxes or strikes, or floods. Buy insurance, get on with it.
This gnat-like action was going on since the late 1950's out of Syria and Egypt. Read the history of Nazi and Soviet intelligence operations in both countries and later local subsidiaries. Four decades ago when I was in Iran I heard people saying the exact same things zarkawi and bin laden are saying now. Old news. People here didn't want to hear about it then and still don't. We'd rather hire a social worker to sort it all out and get rid of any leaders of our own who lead. Too scary to deal with. Ignore it and it will go away.
We are not creating an enemy by fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan and many other places. We are *confronting* an enemy of mankind in an early reconnaissance and educational operation. Do not assume that even 5% of the people in Muslim lands want what taliban or qaeda want.
The leaders of those groups are just brutal protection racket mafiosi like Hitler and Stalin and Pol Pot and Saddam. John Kerry or even Lyndon Johnson wouldn't be able to "reason together" with them. They have to be exterminated as were Hitler and Pol Pot. They don't "represent" anyone.
I'm surprsed you are so bent out of shape by seeing people marching in Jakarta to protest someone pissing on a Koran, or whatever it was that Newsweek fabricated that we did. (I could do a whole series on the "independent" press.) If a bunch of Pentecostal hillbillies in West Virginia or Idaho marched over a Bible desecration we'd both be laughing.
Admittedly, wars suck. We'd much rather be sinning and getting forgiven, or just having calm and rational lives. I sure wish enemies hadn't bombed New York or Pearl Harbor.
Regards and with genuine respect,
Tom
The leaders of those groups are just brutal protection racket mafiosi like Hitler and Stalin and Pol Pot and Saddam. John Kerry or even Lyndon Johnson wouldn't be able to "reason together" with them. They have to be exterminated as were Hitler and Pol Pot. They don't "represent" anyone.
I'm surprsed you are so bent out of shape by seeing people marching in Jakarta to protest someone pissing on a Koran, or whatever it was that Newsweek fabricated that we did. (I could do a whole series on the "independent" press.) If a bunch of Pentecostal hillbillies in West Virginia or Idaho marched over a Bible desecration we'd both be laughing.
Admittedly, wars suck. We'd much rather be sinning and getting forgiven, or just having calm and rational lives. I sure wish enemies hadn't bombed New York or Pearl Harbor.
Regards and with genuine respect,
Tom
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